Spirituality & Social Justice with Bishop Bob Ihloff

Speaker: 00:00:00

Hello

Jon: 00:00:18

welcome to Good News being brought to you by Listening for Clues.

Lauren: 00:00:23

We are Lauren Welch and Jon Shematek, deacons in the

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Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

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We sure are ,today we have a very special guest,

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the Right Reverend Robert W.

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Ihloff, who is a bishop in the Episcopal

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Church.

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Bob served 28 years as a parish priest in three dioceses, followed

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by 28 years as a Bishop of Maryland.

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He was formerly a member of the House of Bishops Theology Committee, President

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of Province 3, a trustee of the Virginia Theological Seminary, and of the

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national Board of Episcopal Schools.

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He's currently offering spiritual direction.

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Bob has been married for 57 years to the amazing Nancy V.

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Ihloff.

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They have two children, six grandchildren, and one great granddaughter.

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Nancy and Bob live in Baltimore, Maryland.

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Welcome, Bob.

Jon: 00:01:21

It's good to have you today.

Bob: 00:01:22

Thank you.

Bob: 00:01:23

It's very nice to be here with you, both of you, who I admire

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greatly and think the world of.

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So thank you for inviting me.

Lauren: 00:01:31

So, Bob, to begin with, you have been in ordained ministry for 56 years.

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Share with us what the thread through those years has been.

Bob: 00:01:43

The thread for me, at least, has been the interface of

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social justice and spirituality.

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This started very early in me.

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I became very involved in the civil rights movement when I was in college in the

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60s and seminary also in the 60s, and I fortunately went to Episcopal Divinity

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School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which was at the time the only seminaries

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that really encouraged students to get involved in the social issues of the day,

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and As I studied scripture and immersed myself in the Civil Rights Movement,

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I became more and more convinced that Jesus was, among other things, very

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interested in justice and civil rights.

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And I also became aware that there were people in the Civil Rights

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Movement who were burning out.

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Because they were constantly giving of themselves, but they weren't

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getting spiritually replenished in what was an arduous and

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long, and still going on, fight.

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And so I began even as a seminarian to turn my attention to how to remain

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spiritually alive and be grounded in spirit so that I would have the energy

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to be involved in social justice and...

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That has been a thread that I have carried through to the present day,

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including my interest in providing spiritual direction for folks.

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I have been in spiritual direction myself for years, and part

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of that has been a necessity.

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If you're going to also be involved in the issues of the day, you need to

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have a spiritual grounding, so that you don't run out of energy and burnout.

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Or lose touch with why you're doing this to begin with.

Jon: 00:03:44

Well, having heard a number of your sermons over the years, I, I would say

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you have been extraordinarily faithful to, to that whole precept of the

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thinking of the Jesus movement as being a social justice definitely been a very

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strong kind of a prophetic preacher.

Jon: 00:04:03

I wonder, has that.

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At times presented any difficulties?

Bob: 00:04:08

Yes, of course.

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But I, over the years have developed a pretty thick skin.

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It was very helpful to me that the first rector I worked with.

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in New Britain, Connecticut, who was also deeply involved in social justice . One

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of the things he mentioned to me early on in my ministry was, it's important

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to decide who you want as your enemies, probably as important as it is who

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you want as your friends, because you're not going to please everybody.

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And that hasn't meant that I have thrown caution to the wind or been for the most

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part in my ministry, purposely difficult with people with whom I disagree.

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I actually invite disagreement and I often.

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inform people who have a different points of view that I value hearing their

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points of view because it stretches me.

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It gets me to be more concrete in what my own beliefs are, but I also think that's

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how we grow as we challenge each other.

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And so I've sought.

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to be a challenger in a good sense of trying to work with people, because

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I do think that diversity is really important, and people paying attention

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to other Christians, especially other Christians, but other people's

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points of view are very important.

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Over the years I've had any number of people who have taken issue.

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Because I do tend to foster a prophetic voice.

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Not everyone is given that voice.

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I feel like that has been something that God prompts me in.

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And I try to not be political in utilizing that voice.

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I mean, the irony is we now live in an age where almost anything you say is likely to

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be perceived as political by someone else so I try to be very clear that I'm coming

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to this from my own Christian belief.

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Jesus spent a disproportionate amount of his time with the poor,

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the marginalized the disadvantaged.

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And that in itself, I think, causes us to take seriously that that's an important

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part of what God is interested in.

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And part of living into the kingdom of God, which is the bringing together of all

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people and creating even playing fields and justice is working among those who are

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particularly disadvantaged to give them a leg up and to enable them to be rich

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parts of the dialogue that needs to go on.

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When I was first ordained I learned that it was also important

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to establish my credibility as a dependable and caring pastor.

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And so in parishes, as well as in the Diocese of Maryland, I have always.

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Making, trying to make it very clear and throughout my ministry, making it clear to

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people that I really do care about them.

Jon: 00:07:16

Bob, I wonder if I could follow up just a little bit on this, because

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you raised a curiosity for me just now, and thinking about, you had sort of an

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equal number of many years as a in parish ministry and in diocesan wide ministry.

Jon: 00:07:29

I just wonder how did that differ in those two roles in terms of getting

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the social justice message out?

Bob: 00:07:36

The roles are quite different, although I felt that many of the

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things that I did as a parish priest prepared me to be a bishop.

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The two roles are quite different, and that was why I was reticent

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about being considered as a bishop.

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I, I never applied to be a bishop anywhere, and my name spun out of the

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computer in New York, which houses all of the resumes of clergy throughout the

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country, to be Bishop of Maryland, and It was not a job I would have ever sought,

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but as I read the profile, I decided they were looking for somebody who had many of

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the same experiences and commitments that I had, and I felt that I couldn't in good

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conscience just say, no, this isn't right.

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Thank you.

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This isn't the will of God, I'm going to stay a parish priest.

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But quite frankly, I was very worried when I was elected that

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I wouldn't enjoy being a bishop.

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And it has turned out that I can't say I like being a bishop more

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than a parish priest, but I have liked them equally and in different

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ways, and for different reasons.

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But the commonality has been that in both cases, these gave me wonderful

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opportunities to really try to Preach the gospel in a variety of different places

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and to learn from different people.

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One of the things that interested me most about Maryland is that as

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one of our former governors said, Maryland is America in miniature.

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And I think that's true.

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It includes one of the great cities of the world, Baltimore.

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It includes white collar cities like Frederick and Annapolis, and

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blue collar cities like Hagerstown.

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And Cumberland, and lots of suburban areas, and lots of rural areas still.

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And, of course, we include two counties in Appalachia allegheny County, and

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Garrett County in recent years Bishop Sutton asked me if I would take particular

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responsibility for our Appalachian region.

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And I have loved that.

Lauren: 00:09:44

So Bob, with all that you've done, the challenges and the prophetic

Lauren: 00:09:51

words that you have spoken what has surprised you in your ministry?

Bob: 00:09:57

For my whole adult life, I have been pleasantly surprised at

Bob: 00:10:02

where I find the Holy Spirit and in whom I find the Holy Spirit.

Bob: 00:10:08

As a young priest, I often went off to hospital situations or in to visit

Bob: 00:10:14

someone at home with a great deal of anxiety about what would I say, what

Bob: 00:10:19

would I do, how would I minister to them.

Bob: 00:10:23

Rapidly, it became aware, I became aware that ministry is always a two way street.

Bob: 00:10:28

That I may go to do something in relationship to someone, but invariably

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they minister to me in a very deep way.

Bob: 00:10:37

As anyone who does hospital ministry knows, there are situations where I

Bob: 00:10:42

have felt I was standing on holy ground.

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It was almost as if, in a Genesis kind of sense, I should remove my shoes

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because the ground was so holy by the witness that the person who was dying

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or was extremely ill was making and the ways in which that enhanced my life.

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So, God constantly does surprise me, although now I expect to be surprised.

Bob: 00:11:09

It used to be a full surprise when I was younger.

Bob: 00:11:12

I am not surprised particularly, but it always takes me off guard.

Bob: 00:11:16

God is in situations...

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where I haven't expected God to be profoundly.

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And anyone who relates to people, I think, and does so from a religious

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perspective, has those experiences.

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They are wonderful experiences.

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They, they give us a lot of nourishment and enable us to

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go on through tough situations.

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Because the relationship creates a space where the Holy Spirit is really

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at work, and that is a very, very humbling and, and uplifting experience

Jon: 00:11:56

I think the the relationship word has popped out in all of these

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good news conversations that we're having, because I think it really is.

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underpinning of what our spiritual life is about relating with

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divinity and with one another.

Jon: 00:12:14

And I was just wondering a little bit more, you'd mentioned earlier about

Jon: 00:12:17

how spiritual direction has been a part of your life just wondering if

Jon: 00:12:23

you could expand a little bit more on the role of spiritual direction in

Jon: 00:12:28

informing your decisions forming your ministry, informing that, keeping that

Jon: 00:12:34

passionate fire alive that you have.

Bob: 00:12:38

You're right, Jon, that relationship is at the very heart of this.

Bob: 00:12:42

And I think relationship is directly related to the concept of incarnation.

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The unique feature of Christianity...

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is the belief that God so loves the created world and particularly human

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beings who have been created that God comes into our experience in the

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person of Jesus, born and raised as a human being with all of the faults

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and foibles that human beings are subject to in a world in which God

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gives up power to become a servant.

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This is a profound statement.

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of God's love for us and calls us into relationship.

Bob: 00:13:25

I've often surprised confirmation classes before I confirm members by

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saying, you know, it's not possible to be a Christian by yourself.

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I mean, It is never just me and Jesus.

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Important as a relationship with Jesus is, it is always in a community, it is

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always a brotherhood and sisterhood, a relational experience that we both

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experience God and we also grow into being better persons with others.

Bob: 00:13:57

And so spiritual direction comes right out of that.

Bob: 00:14:00

And I, am very, very interested in relationships.

Bob: 00:14:04

And when I moved to the Boston area, took two years of intensive study

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with the Boston Gestalt Institute, thinking that God might be calling me

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to be a pastoral counselor, which is something I also love but at the end

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of the training, I decided that no, I preferred to remain a generalist

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because I, I couldn't say that I loved.

Bob: 00:14:25

counseling more than I love preaching or teaching or Bible

Bob: 00:14:29

study or various other things that parish ministry involved me in.

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The next thing I did in that same period in the 1980s was to enter a

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Doctor of Ministry program and that was in the area of spiritual direction.

Bob: 00:14:46

Now that I'm retired, I can go back to doing this, and it is a very

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privileged thing to kind of walk the spiritual journey with other people.

Bob: 00:14:57

And I find it very enlivening for myself, but I think it's also possible

Bob: 00:15:02

that through my own experiences, people will find their spiritual journeys.

Bob: 00:15:12

And when I say spiritual journeys, I don't mean that those journeys

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are somehow isolated in some esoteric way from our regular lives.

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We walk our spiritual journeys in the context of living day to day,

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in the context of what we do and how we behave and how we treat people.

Bob: 00:15:30

What causes we...

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Support, how we spend our money the list is almost endless of how the

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spirit can inform us about how to live.

Bob: 00:15:41

And so spiritual direction is an opportunity when it's done one on one

Bob: 00:15:46

for a person to meet with the director.

Bob: 00:15:49

I don't like the name director because it implies something that

Bob: 00:15:54

isn't true in spiritual direction.

Bob: 00:15:56

The direction comes from the Holy Spirit.

Bob: 00:15:59

If we're being honest.

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And so my job as the spiritual director is try to listen carefully to the directee.

Bob: 00:16:07

and hear where the spirit is either calling to that person or perhaps

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calling to me through my hearing of what the person is saying.

Bob: 00:16:20

So it is not particularly directional in that I don't tell people what to do.

Bob: 00:16:26

I instead it's my job to come up with important questions where they hopefully

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can have an aha from within themselves.

Bob: 00:16:37

Probably most of the answers any of us need to know about life are inside of

Bob: 00:16:41

us, at least if we've lived for a few years I currently do not have anyone who

Bob: 00:16:46

is non Christian, but I would, I would offer that because I can be sensitive to

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person who, the person would pretty much have to have a, a religious connection

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because I am a religious person who takes God seriously, but I don't for a minute

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think that God only works with Christians.

Bob: 00:17:07

So I would certainly welcome Followers of Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or

Bob: 00:17:12

Hinduism into that kind of direction too.

Bob: 00:17:15

I think we can learn from each other, and it's the same spirit

Bob: 00:17:18

that is guiding all of us anyway.

Lauren: 00:17:21

So, as we wrap up here, Bob, is there anything else you

Lauren: 00:17:27

would like to share with us?

Bob: 00:17:30

,I think for Christians in our own culture, we are looking

Bob: 00:17:35

at a somewhat scary, but I think very hopeful phenomenon.

Bob: 00:17:39

And that is that we've already entered, into a new phase of what

Bob: 00:17:43

Christianity is going to look like and what it's going to be.

Bob: 00:17:47

I think what we are going to see more and more of is people who take the

Bob: 00:17:51

gospel seriously as the gospel of love.

Bob: 00:17:55

are going to hopefully jettison some of the ways in which

Bob: 00:17:58

Christians have been offensive.

Bob: 00:18:00

And not the least of that is the ability to welcome people

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of different points of view.

Bob: 00:18:07

We will have people who, for whatever reason, justifiably

Bob: 00:18:11

or not, drive us crazy.

Bob: 00:18:14

But they are part of the household of God, and they need some respect,

Bob: 00:18:19

and they need to be listened to.

Bob: 00:18:21

And that for me is very exciting because I think if we can learn to do that most

Bob: 00:18:28

of what I've learned in life that has really been important, I've learned

Bob: 00:18:31

from people who are different from me.

Bob: 00:18:34

Different skin color, different background, different socioeconomics,

Bob: 00:18:38

different educational backgrounds, or no educational background.

Bob: 00:18:43

I would have nothing in common with.

Bob: 00:18:45

And the Holy Spirit has provided.

Bob: 00:18:48

The commonality and, and avenues to grow and to really cooperate in community

Bob: 00:18:55

so that the church I believe in for the future is a church in which the

Bob: 00:19:00

litmus test will not be what you believe or how you present the faith in a.

Bob: 00:19:07

written and or verbal sense, but how you live the faith.

Bob: 00:19:12

How do you, in your daily life, witness to a God who is loving and who has called all

Bob: 00:19:19

of us to be brothers and sisters and into one family that finds that love undercuts.

Bob: 00:19:27

The other things that divide us, so that it's possible for people who

Bob: 00:19:31

are vastly different to have a love and respect for each other, despite

Bob: 00:19:36

their difference I think it's not God's will that we should be uniform.

Bob: 00:19:41

It is God's will that we learn to love one another despite differences

Lauren: 00:19:47

You are describing what I believe Christianity is and just calling

Lauren: 00:19:55

us at this time in our culture, in our lives to make love the prime goal

Lauren: 00:20:06

with one another in our relationships and with ourselves in creation.

Lauren: 00:20:10

So, you know, I think that was just...

Lauren: 00:20:12

Perfect.

Lauren: 00:20:13

Thank you.

Lauren: 00:20:14

Thank you for sharing that.

Bob: 00:20:15

And I think that's that's where Christians need to think of love, is not

Bob: 00:20:20

so much an emotional reaction to someone as a, Intellectual decision to honor that

Bob: 00:20:30

person as a loved child of God and to realize that if God can love that person,

Bob: 00:20:37

maybe I can learn to do that as well.

Lauren: 00:20:41

Love takes a lot of work.

Bob: 00:20:43

Yes, it does

Jon: 00:20:44

to which we can only say Amen.

Jon: 00:20:47

Amen.

Jon: 00:20:48

And Bob, this has been great.

Jon: 00:20:50

We've really enjoyed having you with us today.

Jon: 00:20:52

I just wanted to ask you are now Retired once again, and maybe for

Jon: 00:20:57

the final time, retired as bishop?

Bob: 00:20:59

I think this is my last official retirement, in that I'm quite content to

Bob: 00:21:05

be doing spiritual direction with folks.

Bob: 00:21:08

And I will undoubtedly be asked to come and preach and do things, and

Bob: 00:21:11

I will accept that as long as I'm physically able to do that kind of thing.

Jon: 00:21:16

If anyone who's listening or watching is interested in contacting

Jon: 00:21:20

you about spiritual direction or what have you, Is there an address

Jon: 00:21:25

or a website we can point to?

Bob: 00:21:27

Yes.

Bob: 00:21:27

The easiest way, and I'm happy to, and I'm seeing both laypeople and clergy, so this

Bob: 00:21:33

is not just a clergy phenomenon the best way to reach me is by writing my personal

Bob: 00:21:39

email, which is RW iHLHOFF@GMAIL.COM

Jon: 00:21:47

we will put the correct email address in the show notes.

Jon: 00:21:50

So if people are interested, you can find those there at any time.

Jon: 00:21:54

And once again, Bob, thanks so much for being with us today.

Bob: 00:21:57

Thank you, Jon and Lauren.

Bob: 00:21:58

Thank you.

Bob: 00:21:59

You know, as you know, I think the world of you both, and I've

Bob: 00:22:02

had a long, long relationship.

Bob: 00:22:04

I mean, really, essentially 28 years with both of you.

Bob: 00:22:07

And that's been a lot of fun.

Bob: 00:22:09

It has.

Bob: 00:22:10

It has.

Bob: 00:22:10

And it goes on.

Bob: 00:22:11

It does.

Bob: 00:22:12

Thank you.

Bob: 00:22:13

Sure thing.

Lauren: 00:22:15

It's been delightful, Bob.

Lauren: 00:22:17

Thank you for being with us.

Lauren: 00:22:19

Jon and I also want to thank all who are watching and listening.

Lauren: 00:22:23

We cannot do this without your participation.

Lauren: 00:22:26

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Lauren: 00:22:34

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Lauren: 00:22:38

And again, thank you for the gift of your time with us today.

Lauren: 00:22:42

Until next time, peace and blessings.

Lauren: 00:22:45

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Lauren: 00:22:49

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Lauren: 00:22:52

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