A Journey of Faith and Calling in Today’s Church: A Conversation with the Reverend Gloria Carpeneto
A Journey of Faith and Calling in Today’s Church: A Conversation with the Reverend Gloria Carpeneto
Join hosts Lynn Shematek, Jon Shematek, and Lauren Welch as they sit down with Reverend Gloria Carpeneto, a Roman Catholic woman priest, to discuss spiritual journeys, the evolving role of women in the church, community, mercy, and the impact of Pope Leo’s Augustinian background. Gloria shares personal stories, insights on synodality, and wisdom for anyone navigating faith and community in today’s world.
⏰ TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 – Introduction & Welcome
00:29 – Reverend Gloria Returns: Reflections and Greetings
01:06 – The Influence of Pope Leo and St. Augustine
02:33 – Augustine’s Journey and Community
04:31 – The City of God vs. The City of Earth
05:46 – Pope Leo’s Approach: Peace, Mercy, and Justice
08:23 – Leo’s Time in Peru and Lessons Learned
09:59 – The Augustinian Way: Journey and Community
11:16 – The Synod Process and the Church’s Journey
13:57 – Women’s Ordination and Excommunication
18:03 – Community, Family, and Belonging
20:09 – Listening, Synodality, and Local Church Challenges
23:01 – The Labyrinth as a Metaphor for Spiritual Journey
27:02 – Words of Wisdom: Mercy, Compassion, and Community
29:30 – Closing Remarks & Farewell
Website Living Water Inclusive Catholic Community: https://www.thelivingwatercommunity.org
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/p/Living-Water-Inclusive-Catholic-Community-100064750924188/
🙏 If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, and share! For more conversations and resources, visit our website: listeningforclues.com
# Episcopal #Deacons #Podcasts #Catholic #womenpriests
Listening for Clues invites you into conversations that discover clues, rather than solutions to life’s problems. Join the journey with Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch, Episcopal deacons, as we explore whatever lies ahead. Check our website Listening for Clues.
© 2025 Listening for Clues
Transcript
Hello friends.
2
:What does it mean to be on a
spiritual journey in today's world?
3
:The Reverend Gloria Capeneto Roman
Catholic woman priest shares her
4
:insights on community mercy and the
evolving role of women in the church.
5
:Brought to you by the good news
team, Lynn Shematek and the Deacons,
6
:Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch.
7
:Terima
8
:Jon Shematek: Reverend Gloria Capeneto
welcome back to Good News, our podcast.
9
:Lauren and I are absolutely
thrilled that you've decided to
10
:rejoin us for another episode.
11
:Thanks so much for coming today.
12
:Gloria Carpeneto: I am thrilled
that I was invited back.
13
:That's a good sign.
14
:Jon Shematek: So we enjoy having you.
15
:for our guests who may not have
seen your last episode, we recorded,
16
:an episode a bit over a year ago.
17
:check that out on listening
for clues and Gloria's there.
18
:I know what we talked about then.
19
:I'm not sure exactly where we're gonna
go today, but Lauren's gonna kick us off.
20
:Lauren Welch: Gloria, last time we talked
about your journey, being ordained as
21
:a Roman Catholic womanpriest, and today
we, like to, hear what you as a priest
22
:for 18 years in the Roman Catholic
Church, Feel Pope Leo's, influence will
23
:be, from his, Augustinian background,
his theology, spirituality, what
24
:would his influence be on the church?
25
:Gloria Carpeneto: I just finished
reading an article called, I hate St.
26
:Augustine, and you should too.
27
:It was the summary of someone's
doctoral dissertation at a school
28
:of theology in, California.
29
:her points were well taken.
30
:Augustine had.
31
:a lot of, of what we would call today
self-loathing, a lot of conflict in
32
:his life around his own sexuality
and his being as a person that.
33
:Could not help but spill
over into his writings.
34
:when I saw that headline, I
thought I bet there are a lot of
35
:people that would agree with this.
36
:I hate San Augustine, and you should too.
37
:However, the flip side of the coin is
that above all else, at least as I read
38
:Augustine and I don't claim to be an
authority on him, but as I read him.
39
:I see him more as a person on a journey.
40
:As a matter of fact, when I started
working with labyrinths around
41
:2000, it was Augustine, who was
actually the impetus for my work.
42
:He quoted Augustine saying,
"Salvator Ambulando".
43
:And what that means is.
44
:All is solved through walking.
45
:I took that to mean walking the labyrinth.
46
:Augustine, meant walking the path of life.
47
:how you connect with community,
how you hold each other
48
:together and you walk toward.
49
:The center or toward God or
toward whatever that unified
50
:point is that we talk about.
51
:my thought on Augustine is, if I can put
aside the fact that he didn't know what
52
:to do with women's sexuality, he didn't
know what to do with his own sexuality.
53
:He wasn't.
54
:Probably wouldn't be a fan of
John Paul's theology of the Body.
55
:If I can put all that aside.
56
:I see him as a journeyer.
57
:A person who is first and
foremost needing community.
58
:when he was named a bishop, one of
the conditions of his accepting that
59
:acclamation in the church was that
he be allowed to form a community.
60
:A monastic community within the Bishop's
residence where he lived so that he
61
:would always have brothers with him,
that was the beginning of the Augustinian
62
:order that Leo is a member of today.
63
:Augustine strikes me as a traveler
on the path to God, needing
64
:community, stressing that.
65
:in his language, he talks about the
city of Earth and the city of God.
66
:reading his writings, you get
a sense that he's talking about
67
:two different ways of being.
68
:One way is to be a person oriented towards
self aggrandizement, power control.
69
:The other, would be the
city of earth, if you will.
70
:The other way of being is
to be a person in community.
71
:Person of compassion,
empathy, love, mercy.
72
:And that person lives in the, city of God.
73
:we would call that Christianity,
basically life and community.
74
:So back to your question, Lauren, what do
I think, Leo, how do I think Leo will be?
75
:Because of his Augustinian background.
76
:I believe that over the years, Augustine
has been refined enough in terms of, how
77
:he thinks about women and sex I think his
theology has been refined enough that we
78
:could say now that even beginning with
his very first address, when he first
79
:came out onto the balcony, the first
thing Leo said was, peace be with you all.
80
:He is a man of peace.
81
:I think his primary concern following
Francis will be world peace.
82
:He will be a man of mercy, justice.
83
:at the same time, he's a
pretty good tennis player.
84
:He plays, wordle.
85
:Words with friends.
86
:He likes those things.
87
:obviously a White Sox fan, I saw something
the other day where security guard had
88
:to put the word out on the internet.
89
:They needed people to stop
throwing things at the Pope
90
:because he's a pretty good catch.
91
:I've seen him catch a baseball.
92
:I saw him catch a little, someone knitted
or crocheted a little figure of the pope
93
:and threw it at him, and he caught that.
94
:So I think he's a pretty good catch.
95
:So he probably likes ball, so I
think he'll be a well-rounded person.
96
:he sounds like he likes people.
97
:I think he does.
98
:just looking at him, compared to
Francis, Francis was a Franciscan.
99
:And Franciscans are a lot, for
want of a better word, looser.
100
:They're not bound by the same
rule as the Augustinians.
101
:the Augustinian rule was the
first real rule, of a monastic
102
:community in the Catholic Church.
103
:So his, his goes back ways, and I think
Francis was just a person who was a lot
104
:more, Visceral in his approach to life.
105
:Leo seems to be a little more,
self-controlled, a little more,
106
:well, maybe self controlled is
the wrong word, but a little more
107
:centered perhaps than Francis was.
108
:It is said that he is pretty, precise.
109
:Even when he was in Peru, it is said that
he was pretty precise in his liturgical
110
:vestments that when he presided at Mass,
he was wearing the correct vestments
111
:and wearing them the correct way,
even when it was in a Peruvian summer.
112
:So he'll be, described increasingly
as a moderate centrist, so
113
:he'll be not quite as far.
114
:Left to the left as Francis was,
but certainly still following in
115
:Francis' footsteps in that idea of
mercy, compassion, companionship,
116
:relationship, community.
117
:Lauren Welch: Yeah.
118
:And it sounded from what I've read
Gloria, that he really grew when he
119
:was in Peru among the people there.
120
:Mm-hmm.
121
:They taught him a lot, right?
122
:Mm-hmm.
123
:Gloria Carpeneto: Yes, they gave him
a sense of acceptance honesty and
124
:transparency that enabled him to.
125
:Be that way in his priesthood.
126
:I believe it was before he was
named a bishop in:
127
:certainly before Francis became
the Pope South American bishops.
128
:had words one time and following
that, Leo said to a friend
129
:I'll never be named a bishop.
130
:once the Pope was named, shortly
thereafter, he was named a
131
:bishop, and so I think his.
132
:His appreciation for just being honest,
transparent, and with people was something
133
:that probably was reinforced during all
those years as a missionary in Peru.
134
:Jon Shematek: So, Gloria, I wanted
to tag on to something you, captured
135
:my attention when you mentioned about
the Augustinian way and how, Leo.
136
:sees himself when you talked about
being on a journey many of us are
137
:aware or are becoming aware of
being on a journey ourselves and
138
:our communities are on a journey.
139
:Our country may or may not
be on a journey, I wonder if
140
:you could talk about that.
141
:your own journey has been fascinating
and individualistic in a way.
142
:what does that sense of being on
a journey mean to you these days?
143
:Gloria Carpeneto: My
journey or Leo's journey?
144
:Jon Shematek: Either
one journey with Leo.
145
:You wanna stick with Leo?
146
:Okay.
147
:Gloria Carpeneto: I'm gonna
stick with Leo for a bit, but
148
:I bet it folds back into me.
149
:I think Leo's sense of journey.
150
:I'd like to be a fly on the wall at
a retreat that Leo makes or maybe
151
:a cell inside his brain, when he is
at prayer, when he is reflecting, I
152
:can't help but think that whether he.
153
:Thinks in Labyrinthine terms or
not, he must think about all of
154
:the twists and turns that his life
has taken from an altar boy in
155
:South side Chicago to the Pope.
156
:I mean, it's been an incredible
journey and, he's never walked alone.
157
:Whether it was a devotion to his family
and his brothers, or the fact that
158
:he went into, a high school seminary.
159
:He was always with
companions on the journey.
160
:So I think the motif of journey
is big in his life, and he
161
:has said nobody is static.
162
:Everybody is on the
move one way or another.
163
:We are all on a journey.
164
:so it, feels like That motif of
journey of being called and answering
165
:that call is one that will continue
to be in him and in the church.
166
:He has already.
167
:Dedicated himself has said that he
will continue the synod process that
168
:Francis started, When Francis started
that synod process, I think a lot
169
:of people thought it was going to be
another Vatican two, and out of the
170
:process would come a lot of changes
in canon law and scriptural documents
171
:But Francis himself said
the purpose of the synod.
172
:It was not the production of
anything except the synod.
173
:And his point was he was trying
to help the church journey
174
:in a different way, journey.
175
:So that dialogue was.
176
:Paramount that sharing and
transparency and voices being heard
177
:And that's what Francis was trying
to do when setting up the, Bishop's
178
:synod over the past couple of years.
179
:And, Leo has promised to.
180
:Continue that and to continue to
make the church as he says it, a
181
:synodal church a synodal church can't
be anything except on a journey.
182
:You know that church can't stop if
everybody in the world is speaking
183
:and their voices are being heard.
184
:You can't be stuck.
185
:Lauren Welch: Gloria, how do you see
that journey, that synod affecting your
186
:journey as a Roman Catholic woman priest?
187
:Gloria Carpeneto: I can't speak for
all Roman Catholic women priest,
188
:because we all are on a continuum,
like any group, But for myself,
189
:I appreciated that.
190
:Francis did.
191
:a pretty good job of holding the
center in the church, holding all the
192
:factions together He couldn't deal
with every single issue at one time.
193
:as a human being, I think he
sidestepped a lot of issues But I
194
:think that Leo will do the same thing.
195
:as a Roman Catholic woman,
priest, I don't hold.
196
:The hope of women's ordination,
for instance, anytime soon.
197
:But Leo has said in a step Beyond
Francis that he wants the study
198
:of the, possible ordination of
women to the diaconate to continue.
199
:And he wants to see that report soon.
200
:So he may be taking steps beyond Francis.
201
:I don't think we'll see.
202
:women ordained in the Roman Catholic
Church, but I trust the Holy Spirit.
203
:You know, if women were ordained
today, God knows what will
204
:happen to the whole church.
205
:but I think that issues that are being
addressed, world peace, the proliferation
206
:of arms, our unknown future with ai.
207
:All of those things are certainly
on the Pope's plate right now.
208
:And on that plate is women's ordination.
209
:for myself, as long as I see
that he is continuing the synod.
210
:Continuing to, as the Pope push for
a Synod church and continuing to
211
:address, have the courage to address
people as he has individual people,
212
:presidents, kings, vice presidents,
whomever, in a prophetic voice.
213
:I'll be happy.
214
:You know, I really don't have anything to
say about it 'cause I'm excommunicated.
215
:So what do I think that excommunication,
as you may know, happened
216
:automatically when I, was ordained.
217
:it's in the code of Canon law that
women can't approach ordination.
218
:And if by chance they find somebody
that will ordain them validly,
219
:they are excommunicated as is
the person who ordained them.
220
:Well, that's all Canon law Roman
Catholic women priests will feel
221
:about that as they do, Since the
church is so much a family to me.
222
:I was baptized when I was four days old.
223
:Talk about cradle
Catholics, four days old.
224
:So, it's part of my DNA at this point.
225
:I don't know that anyone outside of
myself can separate me from that family.
226
:So it's all legalistic to me.
227
:lawyers can say what they will and
that's fine, but it matters not to me.
228
:So I think it would be wonderful if
at some point that excommunication
229
:were lifted across the board.
230
:I think that would be wonderful.
231
:I don't know if that's going to happen.
232
:But I, I don't know why I just, I
have at this point in time anyway, a
233
:great deal of trust in this new Pope.
234
:in a world that is so polarized where
people can't even talk to each other
235
:he really is holding the center,
perhaps even better than Francis did.
236
:when he holds that center, I predict
he will do some things that more
237
:progressive people won't like, but I
trust in him and I trust in the spirit.
238
:I don't think that I'm going to
be applying to Rome anytime soon
239
:to lift that excommunication.
240
:Frankly, I think the thing
that has bothered women priests
241
:more than the excommunication.
242
:When you're excommunicated,
there are categories.
243
:Of excommunication, and, we
were sort of lumped in the same
244
:category as, Child sex abusers.
245
:And I think that bothered us more
than the excommunication itself.
246
:To say that, not that we were the same,
but that the penalty for child sex
247
:abuse is automatic excommunication.
248
:The penalty for being ordained a priest is
automatic excommunication, just felt Odd.
249
:Mm-hmm.
250
:So I think that is probably
a bee in our bonnet.
251
:A little bit more than the
excommunication, but if you can step away
252
:from it and say, as I will say right now,
I've been pastoring a parish, a community
253
:that's probably about 60 people now.
254
:active more people who
roll through our liturgies.
255
:I've been doing that for.
256
:17 years now and, it seems
like people are being fed.
257
:People are being support, they're
supporting each other, as community.
258
:they have not left the church.
259
:They're as ex, everybody in my community
is as excommunicated as I am and it
260
:hasn't seemed to really bother anybody.
261
:So, I get back to trust, I think.
262
:Jon Shematek: I think what I'm hearing
from you is, you know what you have.
263
:That cannot be taken away
from you is community.
264
:Gloria Carpeneto: I have a brother who
is estranged from our family, but I
265
:can't say he's not part of our family.
266
:I don't think family is necessarily
blood, I think it's a community held
267
:together by love and, I just don't
feel as though he is not a part,
268
:Jon Shematek: Yeah.
269
:That's, a kind of a wonderful message for
folks and these days it seems like almost
270
:every family has someone that mm-hmm.
271
:Estranged.
272
:but it's wonderful to realize
that they can still be considered
273
:a member of the family.
274
:They still are family.
275
:Gloria Carpeneto: Again, back
to this motif of journey.
276
:Everyone's on a journey and just as
a, for instance, my brother's journey.
277
:is taking him.
278
:Where it's taking him.
279
:Well, that's his journey,
the same as mine.
280
:And I hope that the Pope realizes that
in this church that there are people
281
:on different journeys, but there
are still part of the, the church.
282
:Lauren Welch: Well, it certainly sounds
like he's open to listening to people.
283
:and that has not always been
what first comes to mind
284
:when you think of the church.
285
:Yeah.
286
:that they wanna listen.
287
:if he does that, he will be able to.
288
:Allow the spirit to move in ways
that maybe none of us can think of.
289
:Gloria Carpeneto: certainly
those years as a missionary
290
:Were not years lived in a rectory.
291
:You know, they were not years that were
lived making pronouncements from on high.
292
:They were years that were lived in
community with people, listening
293
:to people, working with people.
294
:And I cannot believe that he would
leave that behind, just, because
295
:he's moved to a different job.
296
:this whole commitment to Synodality
in our Living Water community.
297
:When the Pope first called the Synod,
we were obviously not invited by the
298
:Arch Diocese of Baltimore to any of
conversations and listening sessions.
299
:So we did our own.
300
:And, we reported to the diocese and we
sent our to Rome and our were included.
301
:There was a bullet, an electronic
bulletin board somewhere.
302
:I never saw it.
303
:Andrea Johnson, our bishop did,
and our results from our little
304
:living water community were there
on the electronic bulletin board.
305
:In a way, it was just that something
was posted, but in another way it was
306
:that something wasn't thrown away.
307
:Something wasn't tossed
because we weren't part of it.
308
:We were part of it.
309
:We are part of it.
310
:So I again think that while
Francis may have, he certainly
311
:didn't coin the word "synodal",
but while Francis may have pushed.
312
:synodality, I think that Leo is going to
put the, icing on that cake where Francis
313
:left it, Francis set a wonderful model.
314
:He got the whole process going.
315
:He did wonderful meetings in Rome.
316
:Around tables with clerics, specifically
requested not to wear their clerical garb.
317
:he did everything he could to make this
a flat and not a hierarchical process.
318
:Where it seemed to break down was At
the local parish level, whether people
319
:were too far removed from the center
of power, or too busy, there's a priest
320
:in Baltimore now who is responsible
for seven churches that closed.
321
:Lauren Welch: Wow.
322
:Gloria Carpeneto: Tell him have some
synodal listening sessions every Tuesday.
323
:Try that.
324
:whether it's really a foreign
concept to have everyone's voice
325
:be heard equally, I don't know.
326
:But I think that is Leo's
challenge to finish the process
327
:that Francis has put in place.
328
:Jon Shematek: you've mentioned several
times, labyrinth or Labyrinthian,
329
:and I know you've done so much with
the Labyrinth that has Lauren, not
330
:so much for me, what I'm wondering
about is, if I were to plot.
331
:or sketch out my own journey the way
I've been kind of thinking or programmed
332
:to think, I'm thinking more of a
linear kind of a thing, step back, step
333
:forward, but heading now into advanced
years, and knowing, what's ahead is.
334
:certainly much less
time than what's passed.
335
:and I'm thinking, with the
Labyrinth you are headed not
336
:in a straight line anywhere.
337
:You're headed toward
a center of something.
338
:Gloria Carpeneto: Yeah.
339
:Yeah.
340
:Jon Shematek: You're heading
toward, and isn't that, a
341
:remarkable thing to consider?
342
:Gloria Carpeneto: I mean, if I were
going to write a letter to the Pope
343
:and now maybe I'm motivated to do
so, I would say, Hey Leo, learn a
344
:little more about the Labyrinth.
345
:Just learn about, because
you're good with journey.
346
:You're good with community, you're
good with mercy, let's put it all
347
:together and talk about how people walk.
348
:what's interesting, Jon, is that when
you design a labyrinth, it's designed
349
:so that you're moving toward the center.
350
:When you walk in, the first turn
takes you right around the center.
351
:in a little circular movement,
and then the next turn takes you
352
:all the way out to the outer edge.
353
:So the feeling you get and the
design of the labyrinth is that
354
:you're close and you're far.
355
:You're near and you're not
so near, you're almost there.
356
:You just lost it.
357
:speaking of the church, we have had plenty
of dark times and our country as well.
358
:We've had plenty of dark times when
it felt like that long walk around
359
:the labyrinth might never end.
360
:Almost out of nowhere, you
take a turn and suddenly you're
361
:back toward the center again.
362
:that kind of, Jon, you mentioned two steps
forward, one step back I would overlay
363
:that on the design of the labyrinth
where sometimes it seems like you'll
364
:never get out of the path that you're in
365
:A turn presents itself.
366
:You make that turn and boom, you're
back toward the center again.
367
:Keeping with this labyrinth
theme is to remember that
368
:people are at different points.
369
:On the labyrinth.
370
:Everybody doesn't travel together.
371
:We are together on the journey.
372
:We're not together at specific points
on the journey, and I guess that's where
373
:mercy and compassion and empathy comes in.
374
:just realizing that sometimes people just
can't be where you would like them to be.
375
:And vice versa.
376
:You may not be where they
would like you to be.
377
:but to remember that
we're all in it together.
378
:Jon Shematek: Oh,
Gloria, that's beautiful.
379
:That is just such a wonderful
concept for me to think about and,
380
:I appreciate, you're kind of pulling
all that together for us just now.
381
:thank you.
382
:Thank you so much.
383
:Gloria Carpeneto: if I could do it.
384
:Jon Shematek: Yeah.
385
:Gloria Carpeneto: Oh, I was
gonna say, if I could do it.
386
:I've done this before on labyrinth
retreats, I always forget how to do it.
387
:I always have to ask God, the Spirit to
tell me again 'cause I forget how I do it.
388
:But I have a way to take a picture of a
labyrinth and put each person's name on
389
:the labyrinth, who's on retreat, and then
give that, elaborate that, and have people
390
:just talk about where they think they
are versus where their name showed up.
391
:But the idea is.
392
:I've almost never had a person
who didn't have a story that
393
:they were willing to talk about
with other people in the retreat.
394
:So again, we're all in the journey,
we're all at different points.
395
:and I think it might be fun to look at
the last 10 popes and put their names
396
:on a labyrinth and see, you know, where
we might have been on our journey.
397
:Jon Shematek: What an interesting
exercise that would be,
398
:Gloria Carpeneto: wouldn't it though?
399
:Jon Shematek: Yeah.
400
:and so Gloria, thank you so much for that.
401
:we usually reserve the last
question, not the last word,
402
:but the last question to Lauren.
403
:So Lauren, I'm gonna bounce the ball.
404
:you can catch just as
well as the Holy Father.
405
:I bounced the ball to you.
406
:Lauren Welch: Well, I should tell
especially after, that last, little bit,
407
:but I'll go ahead and ask the question.
408
:Gloria.
409
:you have shared so much wisdom
especially, as you talk about the
410
:labyrinth journey that we all share.
411
:What other words of wisdom, or
words of advice would you like
412
:to leave our listeners and,
people who are watching with?
413
:Gloria Carpeneto: I wish I had something
more profound to say than Mercy.
414
:I preached on Sunday
on the Good Samaritan.
415
:It was the Gospel on Sunday and
talked about the story of the Good
416
:Samaritan the lesson was not only be
good like the Samaritan, but also.
417
:Be receptive of mercy like the stranger
who was on the side of the road.
418
:Not only be good, but be able to
receive the goodness of others.
419
:that idea of reciprocity mercy, the
giving and the sharing, I think that's
420
:what keeps us together in community.
421
:You know that, that would be my.
422
:Word of wisdom, hang on to mercy
because from it flows, compassion,
423
:justice, gratitude, love.
424
:So that's it.
425
:Jon Shematek: That is, that's
426
:Gloria Carpeneto: all I got.
427
:Jon Shematek: that's more than enough.
428
:That's just great.
429
:Thank you for those words.
430
:And Gloria, thanks again
for your time today, your.
431
:Presence, your wisdom.
432
:It's been a privilege to
share this time with you.
433
:Thank you.
434
:Gloria Carpeneto: Well, thank
you Jon, and thank you Lauren.
435
:Oh, you're welcome.
436
:It was wonderful.
437
:Thank you both.
438
:Lauren Welch: you.
439
:And Jon.
440
:I want to thank all who are
watching and listening for the
441
:gift of your time with us today.
442
:Until next time, peace and blessings.
443
:Gloria Carpeneto: Bye now.
444
:Bye.
445
:Lynn Shematek: This episode
of Good News has been brought
446
:to you by Listening for Clues.
447
:For more podcasts, check out
our YouTube channel or our
448
:website listeningforclues.com.
