Empowering Gifts: Deacons Bridging Church and World

Lynn Shematek: 00:00:01

Hello friends.

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I'm Lynn Shematek with

the Good News team today.

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Let's meet the Venerable Denise

Schiavone Archdeacon of the

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Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

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Join our co-hosts Deacons, Jon Shematek

and Lauren Welch as we bring you

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another podcast episode in our second

season of Good News, all about people

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making a difference in the world.

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Jon Shematek: Welcome Denise Schiavone.

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We're glad you're here with us

on the Good News podcast today.

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Denise Schiavone: Thank you.

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I'm excited to be here

with my two fellow deacons.

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Jon Shematek: Yeah, three great,

deacons rock, as Lauren keeps saying.

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Deacons rock, yes.

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We're just thrilled.

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What did you want to talk with

us and our audience about today?

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Denise Schiavone: Was giving that some

thought and, When I started thinking

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about the different things that came

to mind, I was focused on a theme

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of empowering others in their gifts.

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We really need to do now more than others.

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Something that I think deacons

are certainly, uniquely,

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positioned and, equipped to do.

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Lauren Welch: So Denise, how about sharing

what the diaconate is and how do deacons

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live out that call of empowering people?

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Denise Schiavone: Deacons serve as a

bridge between the church and the world.

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We help point the church out the

doors of the sanctuary, to the world

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where, there are various needs, that

we can serve and help others to serve.

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The fact that we work in the world,

most of us is actually a perfect

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alignment because we're working in the

world, we are working in the church.

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So we are bi vocational or what

some people call co vocational.

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And I think it really allows

us to, bring to people's

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attention the needs of the world.

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When we're at church and also to minister

in our own ways, not with a collar on,

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of course, but minister in our own ways.

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When we're in our secular vocations.

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Jon Shematek: So maybe we should

talk a little bit about you and

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how you found yourself in this

position of being a deacon.

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You've been a deacon for five years.

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And more recently, you have

assumed the role of archdeacon.

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Tell us a little bit about that.

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What's that meant for you and what

does it mean for us as deacons in

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the church, as well as everyone else?

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Denise Schiavone: As archdeacon.

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I serve the bishop in overseeing

the deployment and formation

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of deacons in Maryland.

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What that means is I

have big shoes to fill.

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The previous archdeacon served for

eight years and, there was another

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archdeacon and I stepped into a

role that has been well filled and

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people have been well taken care of.

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For me, it means, I'm trying

to figure out ways that I can

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help people to use their gifts.

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In this current environment we're meeting

so many different challenges right now,

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across the diocese that, I think we

need to find creative ways to do things.

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Reimagining the way we do ministry

and I see myself as trying to help

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make those connections with people.

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Lauren Welch: Denise, what are some of the

ways that you would like to see changing?

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Love

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Denise Schiavone: to grow . The

deacons that we have, the

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numbers right now are pretty.

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slim, right?

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We have 19 serving in parishes.

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So I'm hoping that we to do more

given the resources that we have.

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So how can we be more impactful in

the ways that we serve as deacons?

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one of the ways that I'm

hoping that we can do that.

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It's a small way, but it's a start.

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we came up with a program called the

Deacon Engagement and Evangelism Program.

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we are sending deacons out to visit

parishes other than their own.

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the deacon will visit a congregation that

does not have a deacon assigned there.

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they'll serve in worship preach teach

adult formation, engage with people at

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coffee hour, and have a conversation

about what people are excited about in

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terms of their own ministry in the world.

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Lauren Welch: And you've

done some of these, right?

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How has it gone?

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Denise Schiavone: I will say this,

the first one was the softball

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because I picked the first Episcopal

church that I ever worshipped at,

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as my first visiting location.

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So they were really happy to welcome me.

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Both of the places that I visited, people

have been very welcoming and curious.

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They've been curious

about, what is a deacon?

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What does a deacon do?

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How is a deacon different than a priest?

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how do deacons work

together with lay people?

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And so there's those basic questions

because some of them have either

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never been exposed to deacons

or it's been a very long time.

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then we get to those questions

around, what are you interested in?

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That's what I like to ask them.

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what are some of the things that

keep you up at night That you think

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you might have a gift to address.

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those are the conversations

I've really enjoyed with folks.

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we have, four other

visitors, going out as well.

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And they're having those

great conversations.

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it's sparking that, connection

and dialogue around.

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how we can, meet the needs of the world.

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Jon Shematek: I think you're absolutely

right Denise when you said that

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we need this now more than ever.

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I was wondering, you mentioned there

are a few deacons attached to parishes.

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is there a goal of having A certain

number of deacons, cause that's

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been a goal for many years of this

diocese, like a deacon in every parish.

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another.

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potential way, and I'm wondering about

how you are approaching this in your

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visits, is to talk about the diakonia

of all believers or the servant

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role that all baptized people have.

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Denise Schiavone: I don't have a

number in mind, and I have never heard

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our bishop have a number in mind.

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Would it be great to have a

deacon in every congregation.

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Sure, it would be great.

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but that's not on my list of goals

when we visit congregations, I, it

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would be great if somebody came and

said, Hey, I'm really interested in

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discerning a call to be a deacon.

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And that happened at my last visit.

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And that's wonderful.

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That's not our goal.

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When we go in to talk to folks,

I think it's more about the

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diakonia of all believers.

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How are we helping people to think

creatively about, where their gifts

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match what's going on in the world.

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And that can be difficult because I think

people don't often see their own gifts.

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deacons, are uniquely equipped

to, help people see their gifts.

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and how they can use those.

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finding ways to help people

think creatively about that

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and also, help embolden them.

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So it's empowering and emboldening them

to feel like they can go out and do that.

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Even in small ways.

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Jon, what you said about now

more than ever, this is important

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because, people are feeling helpless.

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They are, they are scared, they

are frustrated, they are angry.

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sometimes it can be hard to

see that, you have a passion.

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and a gift and you might think

that's the smallest thing.

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but that can be life

changing for somebody.

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I have an example of this.

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at my last parish, we, had a group

discerning how to respond to, the

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refugees fleeing, Afghanistan when the U.

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S.

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pulled out of Afghanistan.

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We had a month long discernment

process because the congregation

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was thinking about sponsoring

this family from Afghanistan.

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that's a big deal.

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we went through this process and decided

to go ahead and sponsor this family.

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And one of the parishioners, her name

is Pat came to me and said, I'm at

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the stage of my life now where, I'm

really not going to be able to do much.

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I'd like to help, but

it's going to be limited.

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It's going to be behind the scenes.

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My health isn't great.

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she said, so I'll do what I can,

but I'm really not going to be

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able to be on the front lines.

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And I said, okay, that's great.

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Whatever you can do.

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And then I sat back and I watched as Pat

became somebody, who greeted this family

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upon their arrival in Howard County, from

Afghanistan, somebody who pastored to

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them in their trauma, because there was

a lot of trauma they had experienced and

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somebody they ultimately called Mima.

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Which is the Afghan word, it's a

term of endearment like grandma.

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and so Pat thought her

gifts were very small.

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And in actuality, they

were huge for this family.

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Huge.

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Lauren Welch: So I'm really glad

to hear that you're doing this.

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What has surprised you the most as

you have gone out to these parishes?

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Denise Schiavone: I've been surprised

at how much I enjoy going out to visit.

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I'm a proud, introvert and it's not

my favorite thing to go into places

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that I'm not, really familiar with

and, stand up at the pulpit and,

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Connect people who are strangers.

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I've just, really enjoyed it.

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it's fed my soul.

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these conversations that I've had with

folks and, the passion that I'm seeing

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they have for people on the margins for

vulnerable communities, people are hungry

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to do something and to make a difference.

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that's really exciting to me.

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And it's powerful for me to experience

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Jon Shematek: There can be a real

challenge in that too, because

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people, as you said earlier,

Denise, aren't aware of their gifts.

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very often, my experience, if

you've attempted to name the gifts

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that they have and affirm that,

people are sometimes surprised.

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They're so grateful, especially for

someone that wears a collar, to be saying,

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yeah, you have an amazing gift for being

available or for listening, which is

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our theme really is about listening.

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that's a challenge though, isn't it?

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Denise Schiavone: Yeah, I

think it is a challenge.

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I think it's also a challenge

demographically as well.

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we're hoping, to excite, young

people who are hungry to make

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a difference in the world.

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We need to find ways to do that.

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We need to meet people where they are.

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My own daughter is 23 and she every

day wakes up and says, Oh my God,

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what is happening in this world?

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And I think she feels helpless.

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So I people her age, and in that

demographic are really looking for

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ways that they can make a difference.

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inside the church, outside the

I'm speaking really broadly.

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So if we can help people by having

honest and authentic conversations,

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I think all of that helps.

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Lauren Welch: Those young people

have different ideas and they are

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the ones that are going to have

to come up with plan B's plan C's

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you're trying to get people to do.

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So I think that would be really helpful.

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If we can really be in conversation with

them, they're really smart kids out there.

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They are.

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And some of them are really

doing some good work already.

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Denise Schiavone: They're smart,

they're creative, and they have

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amazing insight, into people's needs

and how to really connect with people.

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I don't know if this is factual, if

we can verify this, but I'm going to

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venture to say that in the Episcopal

Diocese of Maryland, we have, if not

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the youngest, one of the youngest.

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postulants and in deacon formation ever.

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we can fact check me on that he's

gotta be one of the youngest and

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Lauren Welch: he

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Denise Schiavone: is one of the

youngest, if not the youngest.

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22 years old.

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which is amazing.

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Can't be ordained until

he is, 24 by the Canons.

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but just to have a conversation, with

him and really hear him express what's

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on his heart and mind and, what he

hopes for the future of the church.

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we Episcopalians talk about.

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welcoming, inclusive, via media.

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he and his colleagues have another

perspective on what that means,

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What does it really mean to be

radically welcoming and inclusive?

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how are we doing that?

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How are we living into that?

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we think we're doing that.

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We hope we're doing it.

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are there other ways that

we can grow into that?

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Lauren Welch: And there's

many more like him out there.

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If we reach out to this, they really are.

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. Denise Schiavone: Think about it.

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We're church outside the

sanctuary much more than we are

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inside the sanctuary, right?

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Think about how much

time we spend in church.

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If you count Sunday mornings and

maybe, an evening meeting it pales in

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comparison to the amount of time that

we are spending, out in the world.

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Yeah.

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Jon Shematek: Denise, you've got some

other deacons that are doing the DEEP

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or deep deacon evangelism, and it's

an engagement and evangelism, right

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Denise Schiavone: we debated

using that evangelism word.

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Because many folks are a little nervous

about that word, but we landed on.

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No, that's a good word.

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We're.

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Yeah, that's a good word.

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We're going out and connecting

with people and bearing prophetic

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witness about the Good News.

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I can't think of a better

word than evangelism.

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Jon Shematek: Yeah, that's right.

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And it's all about bringing the Good News.

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That's why, we're doing

this in our small way.

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It's what you were saying, when going to

make your visits, it's unexpectedly fun.

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there is just, fun in this.

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it's a different kind of fun than,

serving at the altar and preaching

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from the pulpit But it's where

there is a deep joy, I think.

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And I know, Lauren, you

share that sense as well.

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So yeah, this is what

we're meant to be doing.

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That's how you know what

you're meant to be doing.

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I think this is great and a very

bold thing that you're doing with,

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DEEP, and, it's, really, I'm sure

it's going to make an impact.

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I don't know if we're going to have

dozens of new deacons, but I think the

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other thing that I really appreciate,

Denise is just, from your professional

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background, as well as knowing something.

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things about you and your personal

skill set, is your, creativity and your

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communication skills and so on that you

have in your, have had in your secular

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life, how that, how wonderful that is

to translate the needs of the world and

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the needs of the church to one another

and to translate the need for, the,

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diakonia of all believers out there.

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You're well suited for this role.

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Denise Schiavone: it's funny you

said that because it's only recently,

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probably in the last six months

that I've really felt this strong

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alignment between, my two vocations.

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and I was, there's many reasons for that,

but, as you mentioned, I'm in strategic

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communications and, I'm a storyteller.

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And, I see that playing out both in my

secular job, where I get paid to do that.

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But also, the more we can tell people's

stories, in the church, the more we can

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tell stories about what we're seeing and

witnessing and good stories, about what

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people are doing to make a difference.

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that spreads I feel

like that's contagious.

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Yeah.

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Jon Shematek: Yeah,

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Denise Schiavone: Everybody loves the

story exactly what you guys are doing Yes,

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Lauren Welch: and we want

that to be contagious

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Denise Schiavone: that's the other

thing I love about your podcast is

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that it's broad, ecumenical, bigger

than the Episcopal Church, or even the

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church, I love that, because I think

also the part of this connection.

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in churches and helping people connect

with the needs of the world is broad in

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the sense that, we can be looking for

ways to do that with people of other

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faith traditions, people of no faith

tradition, people of goodwill wanting to

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make a difference that refugee ministry

I mentioned is a great example of that.

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they started with one congregation.

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then they partnered with another Episcopal

church then a Lutheran church then

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the Quakers, and then a Jewish temple.

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Now they are a seven faith

community ministry, supporting

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seven different refugee families.

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look what the spirit did with that.

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I love to see that collaboration

because I think that's going to

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be critical to meeting all these

different needs that we have out in

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the world, and to helping, marginalized

and vulnerable groups of people.

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Jon Shematek: good deeds,

multiplication of faith in whatever

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way, and again, you're right.

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It's not just us and our denomination

or any denomination we do have, the,

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spiritual, but not religious folks.

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if the spirit is leading them, fantastic.

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That's great.

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Yes.

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Absolutely.

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And Lauren, I know you, probably

have another question up your sleeve.

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Lauren Welch: Before we leave.

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Jon Shematek: Yes.

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Lauren Welch: you have shared what

your dreams are, and what you are

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working towards, and you've just begun.

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At this time, in the times

that we live, What wisdom would

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you like to share with them?

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Denise Schiavone: I want to

encourage people to try to be as

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courageous as possible in taking

their gifts out into the world.

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and I know that's a hard thing to do.

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It can be hard to speak truth,

amid all the noise and the loud

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voices we have going on out there.

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even just that littlest bit, that

one statement, that one moment.

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can make a difference, it can be scary.

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I hope that people also can see

failure as an opportunity to grow,

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and learn and, that mistakes are okay.

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We can make missteps.

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try something out and fumble

and falter and it will be okay.

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There will be good that comes

out of it, regardless of

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whether we can see it or not.

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it might be a leap sometimes,

but, try to have a little bit of

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confidence and just take that step

because we need everybody's gifts.

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Jon Shematek: Thank you for that.

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: 00:17:48

This was great.

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: 00:17:50

Archdeacon, Denise Schiavone, we are

so glad that you've been with us today.

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: 00:17:54

I really appreciate your time.

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: 00:17:56

I know you are.

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: 00:17:58

Super busy with all aspects.

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: 00:18:00

Denise Schiavone: No, no

busier than anybody else.

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: 00:18:03

We are all busy, but thank you

for having me I've enjoyed this.

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: 00:18:05

I don't get to spend time with

you guys together very much.

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: 00:18:08

So this is awesome.

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: 00:18:09

Lauren Welch: Been delightful Denise.

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: 00:18:10

Thank you.

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: 00:18:11

Thank you so much Thank you both

and Jon I want to thank all who

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are watching and listening for the

gift of your time with us today

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Until next time peace and blessings

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: 00:18:23

Lynn Shematek: This episode

of Good News has been brought

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: 00:18:25

to you by Listening for Clues.

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: 00:18:29

For more podcasts, check out

our YouTube channel or our

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: 00:18:33

website listening for clues.com.

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: 00:18:36

Thanks for being with us today.