From Brokenness to Hope: The Gospel Mandate for Justice with the Rev. Canon Chris McCloud

Lynn Shematek: 00:00:00

Hello, friends!

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From Brokenness to Hope: the

Gospel Mandate for Justice.

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Join the Reverend Canon, Chris

McCloud of the Episcopal Diocese

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of Maryland for a conversation

on faith, race, and reparations.

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Brought you by the Good News

team, Lynn Shematek and Deacons,

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Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch.

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Jon Shematek: Chris McLeod,

welcome to the Good News podcast.

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Lauren and I are thrilled

you're here with us today,

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Chris McCloud: I'm thrilled

to be with you, my beloved.

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You know how much I love you?

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Jon Shematek: Yeah, the feeling's mutual.

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Lauren Welch: Chris, we know that in

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your job right now as Canon

to the ordinary, you have a

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multitude of responsibilities.

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Would you share with us your journey from

where you have been to where you are now?

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just a little bit of it.

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'cause I know there's a lot.

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Chris McCloud: Wow.

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Lauren, that's kind of a tricky question.

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Well, both of you know that.

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My journey has had some very

interesting, twists and turns.

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As I always say, God's always got jokes.

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The Holy Spirit's always laughing at us.

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just this past week, I reached my

19th year of ordained ministry,

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15 of those years, as a deacon.

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but again, God's always crying out to us.

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and we're all called to remain

in constant discernment, about

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possibilities, God has had some different

conversations with me and along the

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way, understood a little bit better.

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calling to the priesthood, not as a

step up, but a step aside and deeper

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in to something that I believe that

as a deacon for so many years, has

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been important and that is being

connected to, those who have.

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Been set aside for the wrong reasons.

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and being one to want to be out

in the world with them in a way

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that's a little bit different.

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meaning being able to sit with

them sacramentally for me, it's

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always been about Reconciliation

of the heart, mind, and spirit.

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as a priest being able to offer

Prayers, we don't resolve anyone's sins.

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We are conduits for God.

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but as we follow our orders, this

seemed to be the call that made most

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sense for the work that I've done.

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For so long.

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Jon Shematek: And Chris, kind

of staying with the theme of

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reconciliation, I know that you're

very committed to and very involved in

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the diocesan programs on reparations.

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Can you talk a bit about that and how

this started and what it looks like today?

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Chris McCloud: I've been doing the work

of reparations for almost 20, years.

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When I started out in the

Diocese of Newark, it was not

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something I understood very well.

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it embarrassed me a little bit as a

person of color that didn't really

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understand what reparations was until I

was invited into it in a different way.

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Coming to the Diocese of Maryland in

: 2018

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that the diocese, although struggling,

struggling, hard to understand the

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importance of what God's call is to us,

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Repairing that which is wrong, that

which has been broken, that which

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has been rendered away from someone.

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And essentially that's

what reparations is.

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Repairing a wrong, repairing

something that, broke.

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spirits, hearts and minds.

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the Diocese of Maryland did a very

heavy lift, to get to a place to pass a

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resolution in 2022, for us to provide,

reparations in the form of small grants

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to organizations throughout our diocese.

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Jon Shematek: and so the grantees, of

the reparations grants, I know you're

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not gonna have any favorites that

you're going to name, but there are a

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lot of 'em, over these last few years.

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can you just generally talk about the work

that they do, the kind of thing they do?

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Chris McCloud: Certainly.

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the goal of our reparations program has

always been to provide an opportunity

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for organizations to, bring, wholeness,

bring repair into communities that

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have been fractured, particularly

communities, African American, black

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communities, brown communities throughout

the confines of our diocese from

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Western Maryland, to southern Maryland.

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And the programs that we have been

focused on mostly have been healthcare,

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education, housing, microeconomic,

and economic justice, and, programming

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that, helps lift our youth, up.

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And so some of the programs that

we have been able to fund have been

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really just phenomenal in terms of

if we take one of the, awardees from

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this year, and I'm not gonna remember

the name, off the hand, that's not my

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gift and names, however, the program.

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Has been to provide, an opportunity

for young, black and African American

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youth in the Annapolis area to reclaim,

the history of being, on the water.

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if you recall the waterfront and Seafarers

were originally people of color who did

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the crabbing, the, the, the clamming.

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they manned the boats.

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they took care of the, the, the shore.

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And over time, that trade.

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Was wrenched away from people of color.

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The waterfront was wrenched away

from ownership of their families.

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and the community lost opportunity

to, develop those skills anymore.

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So this has been an opportunity

to reintroduce, a group of young

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people into nautical skills,

which is really important.

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another program that we have is.

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A shelter what's

different about a shelter?

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Well, in this particular case, the

shelter for families, we think about

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shelters where people live, are

in sort of a congregate setting.

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Meaning, there are a, a myriad

of people in a large space.

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This is a shelter for.

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Families for mothers and fathers

and their children to be kept

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together when they are homeless.

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and it helps to provide them

with the opportunity to remain

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some level of dignity, some

connectedness to one another.

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These things are really important when

people are going through critical times.

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programs that help uplift our

youth, not only in Baltimore.

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But in different communities around

our diocese have been really important.

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Like in, Frederick County, I believe

in me, one of our first awardees

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have done some phenomenal, phenomenal

work with, youth of color that's

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kind of the work that our diocese

has been providing support to.

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Helping to lift up and build communities

that have been broken or left behind.

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Jon Shematek: Wow, that's amazing.

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You've probably touched so many

people throughout the, diocese.

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one of the things I'm wondering

about is this sounds like it's

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really repairing some of the, wrong.

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Chris McCloud: Absolutely.

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I think the thing for us to remember

as the church, reparations is

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really a gospel mandate, isn't it?

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It's a mandate in the gospel

for healing and justice.

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It's a remembering of who we are called

to be through God's call to us through

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Jesus's teaching and instruction.

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it's remembering the words, of Isaiah.

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The Lord will guide us continually.

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the Lord will help us to

be repairers of the breach.

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These are the things that are

really important for us to

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understand, as the church.

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In this time when things like diversity,

equity, and inclusion programs or

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affirmative action programs have

been wiped off the face of the earth.

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That's not a policy shift.

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That is actually a declaration to, Put

people of color, black, brown, African

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American, Indian peoples in a place

that doesn't allow them to thrive.

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what's important to understand that,

we as the people of Christ being Christ

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arms, legs, and ears out in the world

is that, people don't need charity.

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People need justice.

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our call is always to justice.

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you can't return something, that is not

acknowledged, that was taken wrongly.

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that's justice.

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you can divide or take away

all of the diversity, equity,

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inclusion programs that you want.

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but as the body of Christ, we

need to remember what it means to

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disenfranchise a group of people.

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Now we're not enslaved anymore, but

there are so many spirits in the hearts

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that are enslaved by, this sort of

declaration against people of color.

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the brokenness, the hopelessness

that can be more pervasive.

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But what I will say is people

of color are resilient.

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we know how to bounce back.

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We know how to come together despite

the odds always being against us.

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what we need people to understand,

particularly our Christian brothers

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and sisters, those that we sit in

the pew with, is that we are all

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beloved ones of God and God does

not separate us or parse us out.

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We need to really live into

what we say we believe.

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Reparations is a gospel mandate.

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It's a mandate for healing.

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It's a mandate for justice.

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we are called to be

repairers of the breach.

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in order to do that, we need

to understand, our need to.

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organize, to protect, and to lead

others into a future where, not only

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do Black Lives matter, but black

lives flourish like everyone else's I

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think that's what's really important

for us as followers of Christ.

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Jon Shematek: And that

really, benefits everybody.

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All of us in the pews and

those of us out in the streets.

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when society becomes

more just, everyone wins,

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Chris McCloud: and that's what I think we

miss No matter what we feel politically to

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say unequivocally that I am a follower of

Christ, demands something very different.

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when we don't understand what

that different, pull is, We really

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mock the word of God and what

we believe is God's call to us.

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God's been very clear to us across time.

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I think the challenge is to always

understand that in these moments,

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we're in another period of time where

this is a reckoning for America.

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How are we as Christians going

to stand up to meet that?

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How do we actually address that?

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God.

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Everyone is one of God's beloved children.

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So in order for us to say that we

are doing the Christian thing, I need

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for people to understand we have a

mandate as Christians as Episcopalians,

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through our baptismal covenant, which

is not just something that we do.

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It is something we are reminded of

through our baptismal covenant at

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least four five, six times a year.

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So this is not something to sneeze

at, we're also in the same place as

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our Muslim and Jewish siblings that

connective tissue for all of us.

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because we might have a different

theology that we believe in, in creed,

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we are still God's beloved because we

are still talking to the same one God.

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we need to also be mindful of that.

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While we get ourselves, a

little confused sometimes, We're

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worshiping the same God folks.

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Jon Shematek: Hmm hmm.

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Lauren Welch: We're worshiping the same

God who brings us hope and gives us

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the strength to do what we're called

to do with the passion that you share

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for this work of reconciliation,

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With all people, what has surprised you

the most in the work that you're doing?

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Chris McCloud: I think for me, the

work that I have done over the years,

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particularly with people who have been

formerly homeless, I know that the two of

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you know that I, founded an organization

in New Jersey, a homeless shelter.

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And one of the things that I think

was that little thing in the back

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of my head after all of these years

is that, many of the women that

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I served in entrusted to my care.

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One of the things that was so important

to them, and I'm talking about women

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who were not churched women who, might

have, followed the Muslim tradition,

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their desire to understand if they

would be forgiven for whatever reason,

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they felt that they needed to be

forgiven and that call and that that

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deep sense of brokenness incidences

in their lives have led them places.

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What they want to know

is, does God forgive them?

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Will God forgive me?

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Will my children forgive me?

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Will my parents forgive me?

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It's about a brokenness of spirit,

a brokenness of heart, for a long

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time I struggled, understanding

how do I help them understand that?

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I can say the words.

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God loves you no matter what.

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There is nothing that can set

you aside from God's love.

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It is something that has pulled and

called at me to help people understand

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how beloved they actually are.

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sometimes you don't get to

do that until you understand

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yourself, how beloved you are.

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I realized that I had not yet.

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Given myself the value of

how much God had loved me.

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And when I realized that I was able

to cross that sort of, bridge to

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help hold someone else's hand to

help them also begin to do that work

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to understand how beloved they are.

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Lauren Welch: Thank you for sharing that,

Chris, because I think that that is one

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of the most important lessons that we can

learn is that each of us are beloved, not

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just telling other people that they are.

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So thank you.

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Jon Shematek: Well, Chris, I know there

are so many, programs and people can find

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out about them on the Episcopal Diocese

of Maryland's website, and there's a

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section, that describes the reparations

programs and the recipients of every year.

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Chris McCloud: one of the reparative

programs that the diocese has had

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in place for the last eight years

is our Sutton Scholars program.

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And that's really a program that just

underscores how important it is to be

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able to give our young people agency,

to give them voice, to give them an

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understanding of not only how beloved

they are, but how valuable they are.

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And I am so proud of the work With

Sutton Scholars and the support our

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diocese has provided for this program.

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you know, these programs are costly.

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sometimes it's more important to get

the results than worry about the cost.

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I'll put my little plea

out there for people.

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If you're looking to do something

really important that's reparative,

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give to our communities that support,

the activities of young people, most

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particularly our Sutton Scholars program.

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There are programs in Frederick, there

are programs out in Western Maryland.

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There are other programs throughout

our diocese support our young people.

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They're the ones who are

going to, shape our future.

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they need to understand that

they are leaders in this moment.

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and we need to support them in that,

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Jon Shematek: you know, that's so

important 'cause it gives everybody

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an opportunity to do something.

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we're not all able or willing to.

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Get out in the streets and march.

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We're not all able or willing

to go and serve people directly.

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But most of us have some

resources and why not share those?

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Absolutely.

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that's great information.

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I know we had James Woody from

Sutton Scholars on a couple of

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months ago, and he's amazing.

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And I ask our listeners and

viewers to try to take a look

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at that if you've missed it.

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and there, the Sutton Scholars

sites on there and so on, and how

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to contribute to that program.

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What about if someone had, I just

wanna dig a little deeper in,

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when you're talking about find a

program, is there a way for folks to.

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Find programs that they

may want to support.

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'cause as you say, they're all costly.

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Chris McCloud: Absolutely.

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I think in terms of providing support

to anything follow your heart.

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What speaks to your heart most?

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if you are interested in helping,

homeless people, or homeless families

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or homeless women look for those

programs that, provide those services.

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If you wanna do it through the context

of who we are as the Diocese of Maryland,

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go to our reparations page, look at

our former awardees, see the work that

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they are doing, and make a contribution

to one of those programs as well.

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Or make a contribution to the Diocesan

reparations program so that we can

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continue to help raise up and lift

up these programs that are doing such

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good work throughout our diocese.

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Jon Shematek: Thanks for that, Chris.

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I know people are hungry to

do something, hungry to help.

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I think all of us that are believers in

something know that there's something

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greater that we need to be doing Chris,

I always give my dear Deacon colleague

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Lauren, this moment to ask the last,

the last question unless there's

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something else you wanna talk about.

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But no matter what she asks,

you could turn it around to

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whatever you wanna talk about.

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Lauren.

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Lauren would, would you, would you

close this out with the last question?

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Lauren Welch: Chris, you

have shared so much with us.

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dear to your heart and

dear to our hearts too.

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What advice would you want to leave

with our listeners and watchers, and

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the people who are watching today?

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Chris McCloud: I would ask, our listeners,

particularly those of us who, who.

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Call ourselves, warrior for God,

warrior for Christ, to remember

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that brokenness is all around us.

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it's not just, impacting people of color.

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It's impacting a lot of people.

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And we need to be mindful that there

is a brokenness and what we can do.

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We don't need to be rich, we don't

need to have a lot of resources.

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What we need to do is

bring hope to someone.

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I think the most important thing we

can do as human beings, journeying

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together across, earth, is to be hopeful.

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Even when things aren't fabulous,

just bringing a smile, just bringing

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a sense of hope to someone else helps

us to really live out the gospel

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in a way that, is real for someone.

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not everyone has heard a gospel.

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Not everyone understands the

call of God or what it means for

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us, but they can see it in us.

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It is us who are bringing that

hope and love of God and who

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we say are followers of Jesus.

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people won't believe in Jesus if we're

not showing Jesus through our hearts.

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And so that's what I would say to people.

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Jon Shematek: Amen.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Thank you.

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So, Chris, I just can't tell you how

grateful I am that you've been with

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us today and share your thoughts.

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This has just been great

and we really appreciate it.

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: 00:19:42

Chris McCloud: Well, I appreciate

you guys having me, and I love

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the both of you so dearly,

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: 00:19:48

Lauren Welch: We love you too.

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We love you too, Chris and Jon,

and I also want to thank those who

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are watching and listening for the

gift of your time with us today.

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Until next time, peace and blessings.

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I.

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: 00:20:03

Lynn Shematek: This episode

of Good News has been brought

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: 00:20:05

to you by Listening for Clues.

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: 00:20:08

For more podcasts, check out

our YouTube channel or our

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: 00:20:13

website listening for clues.com.